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Author Topic: Deepfish and ZenZui - The future way of using your Handheld?  (Read 4973 times)
davew
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« on: March 31, 2007, 03:49:17 PM »

Well Microsoft have come up trumps again....

These two applications will blow your socks off... Downloadable as Beta now... But get in the queue!!!

These applications have been designed to enhance the Windows Mobile experience.

Deepfish - A new browser experience which enables full PC type viewing and an ability to Zoom in to stuff you really want to read in detail .... WOW !

ZenZui - a graphical interface which enables you to browse applications by tile by using a touch sensitive screen icon to flick between applications....

Many thanks to Mr Mobile  - Jason Langridge for this one... Check out more detail .. including flash videos of these brilliant apps working on Jason's Website....
http://blogs.msdn.com/jasonlan/

I am constantly amazed with the new stuff that keeps coming out.... getting bored now with people who owned devices a few years ago and have written them off with what was around then.... Roll Eyes

The future is bright ... the future is Mobile  Grin
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Mr Mack
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2007, 06:22:30 PM »

 Grin

It's funny how the worlds largest software corporation continues to play catch up with the likes of Apple, Opera and the open source community!

Opera has provided full view browsing and zooming for Windows Mobile as well as other mobile devices for a long time now (and a heck of a lot of other features). A single programmer from the open source community brought Minimo which even in it's infancy is AJAX compliant and free whereas Deepfish has no support for either AJAX or Flash.

Microsoft must be feeling more than a little threatened by Apple's iPhone if it thinks that an application launcher like ZenFui will fool anyone into thinking Windows Mobile is anything like the iPhone.

Certainly agree with you that the future is mobile. There's going to be a lot of interesting stuff appearing from all parts but I think Microsoft could do a lot better than this if they are seriously committed to the mobile sector in addition to selling 30 flavors of Vista

Just my 50 cents worth!
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davew
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2007, 12:01:39 PM »

Hi Mr Mack,

Welcome to the forum.... You will find that most of the views posted here are impartial and posted in good faith.

As most of the Mobile learning projects in the UK, and indeed worldwide are running Windows Mobile OS, this post from me was meant to inform the many interesting projects that are around.

There are many other online forums to vent the Mac v's Windows debate...

If you look through the past posts you will find ones that have pointed to Minimo and Opera.
In Learning2Go we are using the Opera browser on our EDA's.

You don't state in your post if you have tried out either Deepfish or ZenZui. Maybe when you have, you could do a direct comparison for this forum?

Now THAT would be helpful  Smiley
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jont
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2007, 09:06:17 AM »

Hi Dave,

This is interesting and  it is good to to see some innovations on the user interface front.

Over the last few years the power of hardware has increased greatly (as you well know) but nothing too exciting has happened
with the user interface for a while.

You obviously see mobile  devices in use in a lot of situations, what do you see as the current limitations of current
applications and the user interface?








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James Clay
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2007, 01:32:27 PM »

Sadly Deepfish is no longer available for download, too many sign-ups!
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davew
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2007, 08:58:25 AM »

Hi Jont,

Actually, over the time that I have been using handhelds in education, we have seen a massive improvement in the applications and the user interface.

In particular the way that browsers now "See" the web. when we first started the only way to get full webpage browsing was to activate 640x480 vga... now whilst this is still the best resolution to view content on a handheld.... the way that devices and software now compress web based content is superb.

I understand that VGA mode will be acivated "Native" within Winmob6

As for applications.... you win some ... you lose some!!

So.... in Word Mobile we lose the voice recorder mode... BUT in One note we get even greater functionality and it is portable from desktop to mobile and back again...

Powerpoint mobile still does not allow authoring... so we have purchased Pocket Slides.... My own favourite "Killer" app

Now.... to improve the use interface experience.... take the advice of one of our 10 year old learners... who said "Mr W. why are you using the stylus so much? .. why don't you programme the buttons!!"

Oh yeah .... and , the free program Magic Button is really useful for keeping track on exactly what you have open... and closes the apps at the touch of the x symbol.

Big breakthrough for me is the Synchroneyes software which enables multiple devices to interface with the interactive whiteboard....

My experience with the t-mobile Ameo shows how far we have come in 4-5 years with applications and user interfaces coupled with device developments ....

but that will be the subject of another item .. when I have time  Smiley
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Simone
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2007, 10:43:29 AM »

Hello  Smiley

I've been working on a small project using Acer handhelds as we couldn't afford EDA's  Cry but we got Red Halo and have been using Phatpad that comes with it and also comes with a version for our tablet and desktop PC's. This has been a good combination and I wondered how you thought this compared to One Note?

I was told that the mobile version of One Note didn't support the stylus on handhelds but this seems a bit odd to me!

Also we're looking forward to integrating our handhelds with the whiteboards which is supposed to come with Red Halo this Summer (so I'm told  Wink )

Happy Easter!
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Mr Mack
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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2007, 06:05:29 PM »


As most of the Mobile learning projects in the UK, and indeed worldwide are running Windows Mobile OS, this post from me was meant to inform the many interesting projects that are around.

There are many other online forums to vent the Mac v's Windows debate...



Sorry sport, no offence was intended. What can I say, I was once a NY taxi driver before working for a large software corporation and now in K12 education.

I wasn't suggesting a Mac vs Windows style but just echoing the many opinions, not just my own, about Microsoft's belated interest in mobile and the pretence that Deepfish is something new, innovative and original. What is perhaps interesting is that Microsoft have woken from their corporate coma to realize that they don't have the dominant browser in the mobile sector. This must present Mr Gates with a sense of deja vu given that his "visionary" company did exactly the same thing with Windows and Internet Explorer when Microsoft just didn't "get" the Internet and Netscape Navigator was the leading browser. Microsoft killed Netscape but ultimately IE is now seen as an also ran to browsers such as Firefox and Opera.

No I haven't used Deepfish but what is there really to try that isn't already available on better browsers?

The same could be said for Zenzui which is bears so much superficial similarity to the iPhone interface it's genuinely amusing. See for yourself:

http://www.zenzui.com/
http://www.apple.com/iphone/

Possibly the good news, and it remains to be seen, is that Microsoft are taking mobility seriously and maybe this might reach K12 though Palms are the dominant platform here.

I understand that you're a big fish in the handheld learning world so no doubt Microsoft will be keen and pleased to receive your endorsement!
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Graham
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2007, 05:35:14 PM »


Sorry sport, no offence was intended. What can I say, I was once a NY taxi driver before working for a large software corporation and now in K12 education.



Hi Mr Mack

I've heard NY taxi drivers call people many things but never "sport" so I guess your progression via the corporate ladder to education has mellowed you, either that or you've spent some time with our friends from Down Under!  Grin

Your points regarding Microsoft are understood and one might agree that most of their recent mobile efforts are related to Windows Mobile for Smart Phones rather than the Pocket PC or Windows Mobile Professional (as now known for version 6). But just because they haven't done something in the past isn't really a justification for slating them for doing something in the present or promising support in the future. One of the challenges for pioneers like Dave and others is trying to "pin the tail on the donkey" on platforms that will be supported in the face of the many that can't see beyond laptops. The fact that Microsoft are apparently doing things for mobile at least provides some confidence for those considering projects which otherwise might not happen.

Whether this new browser is better or a copy of another browser is hardly an issue in terms applying mobile devices to teaching practice and learning.

I think many of us in this forum look forward to Apple's entry into the mobile space beyond the iPod but we've been disappointed to learn that the iPhone is likely to be a closed environment and we can only make do with rumour of an Apple sub-notebook/tablet for sometime in the future. At least Windows Mobile and Zenzui are open to developers.

Microsoft and Apple are both dwarfed in the mobile phone space by the likes of Symbian/UIQ who are the real dominant operating system for smart phones and the real target for these relative newcomers. Nokia have had zooming browser capability for a long time if we want to continue a debate of who had what first.

However, I really wonder if browsers with zooming capability are just a band-aid for badly designed web sites? Shouldn't web sites now be designed with mobile devices in mind as well as increasingly high-res PC screens? Most web development tools now have this functionality.


I was told that the mobile version of One Note didn't support the stylus on handhelds but this seems a bit odd to me!

Also we're looking forward to integrating our handhelds with the whiteboards which is supposed to come with Red Halo this Summer (so I'm told  Wink )



Hi Simone

My understanding, although Dave may have better knowledge on this one, is that One Note Mobile which comes as part of Microsoft Office 2007 is an add-on intended for smart phones running Windows Mobile (although it will work on PPC) so the use of the stylus for tap and drag has not been implemented, i.e. it uses the buttons.

There's a review for One Note Mobile here and here.

Also for comparison there are reviews of PhatPad here and here.

With regards to whiteboard integration with RedHalo the development team in Cambridge tell me that this will be demonstrable in time for the NECC show in Atlanta, US, so the Summer sounds about right!

Now where are those Easter eggs?

« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 11:22:18 AM by Graham » Logged
Graham
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2007, 10:27:10 AM »

Somebody sent me this link from The Register over the weekend which is another interesting take on web browser debate and is suggesting that Microsoft should ditch Windows Mobile and build a layer over Symbian. Can't see it happening myself!

Quote

Microsoft had its hand forced this week into unveiling just a little of its arsenal in the war to win the browser battle on the mobile phone. Microsoft clearly won the PC browser war by giving away and bundling its Internet Explorer, and then by creating a rich, open platform which along with the Visual Studio tools allowed developers to get the best out of browser based applications.

Today it is clearly lagging in browser penetration in handsets and there is an argument that says it is so much the enemy of all the major handset makers that a browser from Microsoft will never be allowed sufficient access to the hardware architecture to be viable.
 
Repeatedly it has been asked of Microsoft, why not throw away Windows Mobile and build a new generation of software on top of the prevalent smart phone operating systems – Symbian and Linux, or add Windows Mobile only as an afterthought?

But while operators couldn’t give two hoots about whether Microsoft has control of the device they buy into, handset makers like Nokia are just never going to co-operate, so Microsoft is constantly forced back into developing only for its own platform, with no access to the bulk of the market.

So far Nokia, with its browser strategy embracing both Apple’s Safari and Opera, has been ahead of the game in trying to promote a standard and intuitive way to browse web pages on a handset. Nokia also sits with Series 60 in the development role that Microsoft occupies on PCs with Visual Studio, and also Nokia and Apple embrace AJAX and Widgets, the browser development environment and prefabricated applets.

More...


As mentioned above, this debate is mainly around phones (of which there are many "standards") rather than handheld computers (of which there are a few but a growing number of "standards"). However if we are to assume that we are seeing a period of convergence between device types and that there will be many different formats the standardisation of web browser (or a browser that conforms to a certain set of standards) will become critical for educational material delivered via the Internet.

There's a lot at stake here, especially if we want to see the development of fully cross-platform educational materials for mobile access.
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Graham
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2007, 08:12:58 AM »

Deepfish review:

http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Deepfish+Impressions/article7784.htm

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