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Graham
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« on: September 05, 2007, 07:47:28 PM »

An iPhone without the phone?

Well it didn't take Mystic Meg to forecast that Apple would bring out a wide, touch-screen iPod with WiFi connectivity in time for the run up to Christmas holiday season.

According to Bloomberg:

Quote

The company will add a new iPod Shuffle and a smaller iPod Nano, Jobs, 52, said today at an event billed as ``The Beat Goes On'' in San Francisco. The new Nano, available in five colors, will play games such as a Sudoko program developed by Electronic Arts Inc. Nano prices will start at $149.

The company also built on the success of its iPhone, released in June, by introducing an iPod with the same touch- screen technology. The new iPod Touch has the same 3.5-inch display as the iPhone, built into a thinner package, and can connect to a wireless network. Like the iPhone, it can play videos from Google Inc.'s YouTube service.

More...


With the Safari web browser built-in Apple has effectively released a powerful Internet Tablet for less than US $300



This rocks  Cool

More info at:
http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 09:26:03 AM by Graham » Logged
Graham
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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2007, 12:11:39 PM »

Another nice snippet here:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/education/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=18993

 Wink
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MHilbery
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2007, 04:37:14 PM »

Not sure if it would be better without the phone option or not, but this version is smaller and still supports WiFi  Shocked.  But from memory the phone does not support 3G  Huh although this is the only function it is lacking but it would have made a lot of difference.
Who knows Apple may add 3G, HSDPA to the next generation of the IPhone?? 
Good to see Apple bringing out these great devices along with the software, all I can hope for is that Microsoft and other hardware companies are taking notes.....  Grin
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Mr Mack
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2007, 05:46:17 PM »

Windows Mobile is Dead

Apple Wins

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/freitasm/3695
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geoff stead
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2007, 09:19:17 PM »

The only sad news is that they still havent opened up the device for 3rd party software developers just yet ... But it uses the same Touch X OS that the iPhone uses (in fact the software running on it is pretty much identical to the iPhone) so it is only a matter of time ...

But with WiFi, and a great browser there are loads of possibilities ... http://moblearn.blogspot.com/2007/09/m-learning-on-your-iphone.html
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Graham
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2007, 09:49:30 PM »

Windows Mobile is Dead

Apple Wins

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/freitasm/3695


Well, given that the iPhone outsold all smart phones combined in the US last month you may well be right Mr Mack however I would suggest that the "Battle Royale" will be between Apple and Google.

Which sort of leads to Geoff's point. The iPhone and IPod Touch is open to developers provided that they deliver through the browser and using modern programming techniques based around protocols such as AJAX. The potential for cross-platform learning content and applications delivered this way is quite exciting. Has anybody checked out Adobe Air?

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/air/

 Wink
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 09:58:20 PM by Graham » Logged
wolfluecker
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2007, 11:47:13 AM »

Just to throw in a few thoughts, coming from (what used to be) an Apple fanboy:

Quote
Well, given that the iPhone outsold all smart phones combined in the US last month.


Oh come on, that's a bit misleading, because July was the iPhone launch month and apparently it sold more units on the first weekend than the whole rest of the month together. So those people were the early adopters, geeks, fanboys and people who have the money to spend on a brand new toy. Let's see how the months after that fare. It has been noted in hard-nosed industry circles that slashing the price of a product by $200 after 2 months normally reeks of desperation. Or maybe it's because Nokia has just announced new multi-media phones and a music download service for less. Or it's because everybody is worried about the Google phone coming...

Jobs said that if anybody was to cannibalise Apple, he'd rather it was Apple themselves. So by releasing the iPod Touch he's put at least one nail in the iPhone's coffin. A quick poll on one website said that 36% of people would not have bought an iPhone if the Touch had been available at the time. In fact, only 20% answered that they would have, because 32% are waiting for 3G and 12% don't want one anyway. If you look at all of Nokia's smartphone models together, they still outsold the iPhone in July.

Then there's the whole internet tablet thing. The Nokia devices (770 and N800) have been around for a while and after picking up a 770 cheaply, I have to say it's great. It's got Wi-Fi, MP3 player, video player, applications, great screen etc. And it's OpenSource, Linux, got Opera and Flash. So apart from the form factor and finger-touch screen, what does the iPod Touch offer? Yes, I know, its iPod brand will of course make it much more prominent than the Nokia ones will ever be, but in the educational world surely people go for features, not for the brand... ;-)

Quote
The iPhone and IPod Touch is open to developers provided that they deliver through the browser and using modern programming techniques based around protocols such as AJAX. The potential for cross-platform learning content and applications delivered this way is quite exciting.


Again sorry, I don't agree. Being a bit techie here, AJAX is not a protocol, just a technique of using XML and JavaScript in a certain way. It's not a standard (although some people refer to it as one), it's got a lot of issues on slower devices - and it's still browser-based. I think for rich educational content the browser is a big hindrance. There are plenty of technologies available that allow you to create rich and exciting applications for learning - AJAX isn't one. The iPhone/Touch doesn't offer any of them either and is essentially still completely closed for anything else than building browser-based web applications. That's not enough in my opinion.

AIR has huge potential (being a Flash fanboy meself) but it also needs its own runtime installed to work seamlessly, no idea if Apple will allow it either. That would be exciting though.

There's an interesting thread here

I dearly want Apple to succeed with this, but they've got to get it right.

Wolf.
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Graham
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2007, 03:18:42 PM »

 Grin

Hi Wolf


Oh come on, that's a bit misleading, because July was the iPhone launch month and apparently it sold more units on the first weekend than the whole rest of the month together. So those people were the early adopters, geeks, fanboys and people who have the money to spend on a brand new toy.



Dude, I'm simply commenting on Mr Mack's canard that Apple are beating Microsoft in the mobile space. Someone once told me that the Zune did everything that the iPod did.

Except sell  Wink

It's a fact that the iPhone has sold an enormous number of units and the marketing machine has taken this beyond Apple fanboy/girl status. Apple has made a very successful transition from computer to consumer electronics company and the iPod range has been a runaway success even though Apple were late into the MP3 player market. Just a few years back who would have predicted that Apple would be one of the largest suppliers of music? Isn't it fair to speculate what kind of impact that Apple might have on the telecoms/mobile communications world?

Let's see how the months after that fare. It has been noted in hard-nosed industry circles that slashing the price of a product by $200 after 2 months normally reeks of desperation. Or maybe it's because Nokia has just announced new multi-media phones and a music download service for less. Or it's because everybody is worried about the Google phone coming...


It depends what you read. I would say that it's just business and a technology paradigm shift now has various players squaring up for battle. Interesting that Apple has the flexibility to cut the cost. Try this article from the Independent:
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2938991.ece

I suspect the only desperation that Apple are feeling is the ability to manufacture sufficient units in time for the Christmas holiday season.

Google, on the other hand, have so much spare cash and the ability to control the way in which content is monetized, stored, searched, manipulated and delivered that they could really give any player a run for their money.


Jobs said that if anybody was to cannibalise Apple, he'd rather it was Apple themselves. So by releasing the iPod Touch he's put at least one nail in the iPhone's coffin. A quick poll on one website said that 36% of people would not have bought an iPhone if the Touch had been available at the time. In fact, only 20% answered that they would have, because 32% are waiting for 3G and 12% don't want one anyway. If you look at all of Nokia's smartphone models together, they still outsold the iPhone in July.


Hmmm...  not everyone (especially younger school kids) wants a cellular phone.


Then there's the whole internet tablet thing. The Nokia devices (770 and N800) have been around for a while and after picking up a 770 cheaply, I have to say it's great. It's got Wi-Fi, MP3 player, video player, applications, great screen etc. And it's OpenSource, Linux, got Opera and Flash. So apart from the form factor and finger-touch screen, what does the iPod Touch offer? Yes, I know, its iPod brand will of course make it much more prominent than the Nokia ones will ever be, but in the educational world surely people go for features, not for the brand... ;-)


Yes, but it's the kids that are bringing in the devices not the schools handing them out. I don't see too many school kids on the bus back to Peckham using an N800 to listen to their music  Tongue


Again sorry, I don't agree. Being a bit techie here, AJAX is not a protocol, just a technique of using XML and JavaScript in a certain way. It's not a standard (although some people refer to it as one), it's got a lot of issues on slower devices - and it's still browser-based.


Sorry my shorthand for the benfit of non-tech members although I did think that XMLHttpRequest was a protocol  Wink and I'm sure that a lot of folks might disagree with you on the standards issue.


There's an interesting thread here


I always enjoy Leonards observations but he's way off on this one, as indeed, the commentators on his blog have demonstrated

I dearly want Apple to succeed with this, but they've got to get it right.


Agreed!  Grin


Cheers

Graham
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 04:16:31 PM by Graham » Logged
MHilbery
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2007, 03:28:20 PM »

Apple have now offered a $100 (49) credit to customers who brought the iPhone before the company cut their price by $200, saying "it wanted to live up to the trust of its customers"
FT's article here
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wolfluecker
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 06:14:42 PM »

Hi again,

Graham, I agree with your assessment of Apple as an amazing success story and very good marketing machine. I don't think I doubted that in my post, I'm just taking issue with boasting sales stats that are not reliable because they only cover a very short period.

Quote
I suspect the only desperation that Apple are feeling is the ability to manufacture sufficient units in time for the Christmas holiday season.


I don't see how the Independent article - saying that Apple's share value went down after the announcement - contradicts what I said. Michael Mace, who is very well-respected in mobile circles, points out that the early price-cut is at least very unusual. As mentioned above, Apple even feels the need to reimburse the early adopters. All this doesn't make me feel that they are too confident in the iPhone's sales. The iPod Touch is different - that one will sell like hotcakes.

Quote
Hmmm...  not everyone (especially younger school kids) wants a cellular phone.


And that's exactly what I meant: By offering the non-phone device, they put the iPhone in serious trouble, don't you think?

As for the Internet Tablet, you're beating me with my own argument I have to say. I usually go around telling people that the way forward is to use the devices in learners' hands, not the ones they're given by educational institutions. So yes, since they will turn up with iPod Touch devices, we should look at using them. But I think that's a shame in this case, because that device is so limited, while the Nokia tablets could offer so much more for educators and content producers.

Hooray, let's have a terminology fight! XMLHttpRequest is an API actually. AJAX is not a 'Standard' with a capital 'S' in W3C terms. It's a standard technique on the Web today, of course, but I was referring the usual argument by the Standards boffins that things like Flash aren't web standards (see Brent Schlenker). My argument was more against the browser-based content, which I passionately believe to be insufficient for creating amazing learning experiences.

I've found his comments a bit hit and miss in the past but on this occasion I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment of Low's post. In fact the people who are questioning it are the people he singled out by name (Tony Vincent and Brent Schlenker), so you would expect them to disagree. Other posts are not so controversial. The last post by Schlenker has so much wrong with it, so far I couldn't even find the time to reply to it. Sorry, but to call the iPod Touch with its purposefully throttled functionality the 'ULTIMATE learning device' is frankly bizarre. What do you do with it when there isn't a Wi-Fi signal to use Safari with? Watch videos and listen to audio. Right.

I always seem to be picking fights with the boss. Err, can I have one ticket for Handheld Learning 2007 please, Sir...?  Roll Eyes

Wolf.
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Graham
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2007, 06:35:33 PM »


I always seem to be picking fights with the boss. Err, can I have one ticket for Handheld Learning 2007 please, Sir...?  Roll Eyes


Lol!

I always enjoy a debate with you Wolf, after all, that's what a forum like this is about. It would be boring if we were all in violent agreement!

Still think you're wrong about AJAX though  Tongue

See you at Handheld Learning 2007 - handhelds at dawn  Grin

Cheers

Graham
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Graham
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2007, 09:15:27 AM »

UK buyers from the online Apple store can save 20 by using this code:

ENTMZGJPVJ

before 29th Sept 2007

 Smiley
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